• Vitina Blumenthal

Charging Your Worth with Sanja Serwa



Putting a price tag on your product or service can be a daunting task for any entrepreneur. “How much is too much? Don’t I have to be competitive? Am I really worth that much?”. These sorts of questions can get stuck in your mind when running your own business and it’s really easy to undervalue yourself.


But don’t fret, Sanja Serwa is here to tell you you’re worth it! Sanja is a self-diagnosed stubborn entrepreneur talking with us today on Soul Compass about getting paid what you’re worth. She achieved freedom from working under a boss and took charge of her career heading-up two successful companies:


  • IV Skincare - a luxury skincare range without the luxury price tag

  • Vossity - an online beauty boutique specializing in green beauty products


You might have come across negative press or unhappy customers in your career and it’s hard not to take this personally. I’m sure you remember very well that one time you missed a deadline or misinterpreted a brief, but it seems to be hard to recall the hundred times you nailed it. This can lead to problems valuing yourself and your work, a value that is communicated to the world in what you charge your clients or customers.


We discuss self-worth as businesswomen, negotiation tactics, and Sanja’s 4 strategies to productivity as an entrepreneur.




TOPICS WE COVER:

  • Separating your feelings in business and not taking things personally

  • The worst that somebody could say is no, and that’s not so bad

  • Lowering your prices to stay competitive cheapens you in the client’s eyes

  • Being adept and efficient at something does not mean charging less

  • Remember, the client has come to you because they need you

  • Never lower your price, instead add more value

  • Even a “no” on a price rise, is still a playground for negotiation

  • Changing your financial mindset along with your perception of financial proficiency

  • What is your “Why”? Why do you deserve to be paid this amount?

  • Understanding your priorities


LINKS:





Sanja Serwa: When you say like, "This is what I want you to pay me, this is what I'm going to deliver to you", and I'm telling it to you in a very certain and confident way, 99% of the time your client or customer is going to be like, "Okay, I believe you."


Vitina Blumenthal: Namaste and welcome. I'm Vitina Blumenthal and you're listening to the Soul Compass podcast: the place for creative minds and soul-preneurs, just like yourself, to find your inner calm and deepen your self-discovery journey. You'll learn practical tips from experts and get inspired to enhance your mental and emotional well-being. Turn off your notifications, put your phone on airplane mode for this episode. It's time to focus and renew your commitment to yourself.


[music]


Vitina: This episode is brought to you by the Soul Compass necklace. I co-created the Soul Compass symbol in 2015 as a symbol of life's greatest journey: the inward journey of self-discovery of course. In 2019, I partnered with a local Toronto jeweller, Blue Boho to create this symbol into a necklace for those who are on a spiritual journey of enlightenment and discovery. I created this piece to wear as a reminder of the strength and courage it takes to continue staying course on this path, even through the beauty of life’s struggles. It's a reminder to stop looking outside of yourself and to slow down enough to hear the whispers of your soul to point you in the right direction. While I would like to continue to keep this show ad-free, the profits from this necklace, a gift for yourself or maybe someone you know who is on a personal journey, helps fuel this show.


You can head to SoulCompass.life and click on "Shop" to purchase or to learn more.


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Vitina: Hello and welcome to another soul compass episode. So excited to have you here today with us and today's topic, we're focusing on the idea of charging what you're worth. But before we get started, let's tune in for a mindful moment.


If you are seated at your desk, just uncrossing your legs and planting the soles of the feet onto the earth. If you are seated in your car, maybe just straightening the spine a little bit taller, sitting up in your seat. And if you're walking, maybe just taking this opportunity to slow down your pace for a moment. If it's safe to do so, maybe you're closing your eyes, placing your palms on your lap. If you're driving, keep your hands on the wheel and just taking this moment to tune in to where you're at today, where you’re at mentally and emotionally, and inviting yourself to be the observer.


Try not to judge or change where you are at in this moment, but simply just observing where you are right now. Tuning into where you're at energetically. Are you feeling really vibrant and alive? Are you feeling a little depleted? Are you feeling an excessive amount of energy? Maybe leaning towards stress and anxiety, and again just observing where you're at.


Noticing if there are any sensations in your body and maybe taking a deeper breath in towards that area. Bringing your awareness and your attention into this space that's speaking to you right now and together we'll take four grounding breaths. Inhaling for the count of four, holding, and exhaling for the count of four, and I'll guide you through four rounds of that.


Inhale in through the nose for the count of four, three, two, one, pause. Exhale for four, three, two, one. Inhale for the count of four, pausing at the top, exhaling for four. Inhaling in through the nose for the count of four. Can you expand through the chest, through the belly, pause, and on the exhale, contracting through the belly, the chest. Doing that one more time. Inhale to expand, breathing deep all the way to your belly, pause and exhale to let that go.


Now that I have you present with me in this moment, let's dive into this week's episode


Putting a price tag on your product or service can be a daunting task for any entrepreneur. You might ask yourself, how much is too much? Don't I have to be competitive? Am I really worth that much? These sorts of questions can get stuck in your mind when running your own business and it's really easy to undervalue yourself, but do not fret. Today on the podcast we have Sanja Serwa here to tell you that you are worth it, my friend. Sanja is a self-diagnosed stubborn entrepreneur talking with us today about getting paid exactly what you’re worth. She achieved freedom from working under a boss and took charge of her career, heading up two successful companies, IV Skincare (a luxury skincare range without the luxury price tag), and Vossity (an online beauty boutique specialising in green beauty products).


I'm sure you have come across negative press or unhappy customers in your career and it's really hard not to take this personally. I'm sure you remember very well that one time you missed a deadline or that one time you misinterpreted a brief, but it seems to be hard to recall the hundred times you nailed it. And this can truly lead to problems valuing yourself and your work, a value that is communicated to the world in what you charge your clients or customers. So today we discuss self-worth as businesswomen, negotiation tactics, and Sanja's four strategies to productivity as an entrepreneur. So I will not keep you waiting any longer. Let's dive into this week's episode.


Vitina: Sanja, thank you so much for joining us on the Soul Compass podcast.


Sanja Serwa: Thank you for having me. I'm very excited.


Vitina: Sanja is an incredible entrepreneur. I just can't wait to dive into all your wisdom, all your expertise today. We're big on keeping it really real, keeping it really authentic on the podcast. I'm just curious to know, along your journey, what was the pivotal moment that made you say, "Heck, yes. I'm diving into entrepreneurship"?


Sanja: I think it was something that was always in me, and I just never really knew, I guess, although I probably should have. I have a good, very strong Type A, stubborn personality. I have worked for people my whole life. I just always struggled with the authority aspect of it, and I never understood why. I think it was just because I always felt like I had all these ideas and all these things that I wanted to share, and I was never in the position to do so, which I also think is important to go through that as well because it had to teach me patience and to be a little bit more reserved. I think that's what lit a fire under me to then be like, "Okay, but the reason I want to do this is that I so badly want to be the person in charge. I also want to be the person who's giving others a platform to better share their ideas, because I felt like I had always been in a work environment that didn't really let the person, the small guy really share their thoughts. I was like, "I never want to do that." I'm so interested in everybody's ideas, and I just want everybody to be able to share them. That's really what sparked me on this path, and I've just never looked back.


Vitina: I've gone through the same experience myself in being young. It's super vulnerable sharing your ideas and then maybe being criticized. It doesn't matter how old you are. Sometimes I can be intimidating. How would you say you dealt with going through that process?


Sanja: I think for me it was really just learning to separate myself as a person from my ideas and my work. Even at the beginning of my entrepreneur journey, I took things really personally. I had a customer that was upset, or if someone's put a bad review or stuff, I would just take so personal. I'd be like, "This really sucks." Then, I think it's just more the realization of, A, I think it's maturity and the progress of being an entrepreneur and learning so many things along the way. I think that it's just learning to take things so personally because it's very rarely personal. I've had people who have gone out of their way to say really nasty things about me as a person, but I've also just sat back and been like, "That's not a reflection of me. I know who I am and I know what contributed and what I bring. I totally get it." For every nine customers that I have that are so wonderful, you get the one that says something that's so hurtful, and you're like, "Ugh."


It's hard to not let it get to you, especially when you care about the business so deeply. I've really just had to learn to be like, "The worst that somebody can say is no." I mean, "Okay. Then what?" You just go somewhere else. You know what I mean? That's not the end of the world, and just to not take things so personally, because really, they're not a reflection of you. It's a reflection of that person. Also, people are entitled to have bad days and opinions, just like we are.


Vitina: Yes, absolutely. I got chills as you said that because that's a huge lesson for me on this journey as well. I think one moment for me, especially when I started Wonderful Soul, the core of Soul Compass, it was a few years ago, I had an investor looking to start maybe opening some wellness locations. I remember being so caught up. I have felt like I was giving a piece of my soul to him or something. [chuckles]

He said to me, "Vitina, I'm doing a piece of Wonderful Soul. Not a Vitina Blumenthal." Light bulbs just went off, and I have like an umbilical cord attached to my business. Similar to your experience, any bad review, any criticism of my baby, it felt like it was a personal attack.


Sanja: I think it's because, and I don't know if this is going to sound harsh or not, I think that human beings are innately narcissistic. You know what I mean? I think that we think that everything is about us. This person looked at me like, "This is about me." It's not about you. You know what I mean? Sometimes you have to think about it that way. It's like, "This isn't actually about me. Not everything is about me, and that's okay."


Vitina: That's actually a huge realization because everyone's walking around thinking, "Oh, my gosh. What is everyone else thinking of me?" They're not even really thinking about you.


Sanja: Nobody's thinking of you. I'm sorry. I know. It's so hard. I always tell that to my friends when they're struggling with things. I'm like, "You guys. I don't know how to tell you this, but nobody cares other than you. I'm above you. You're the only one who cares about this." Then, they're like, "Yes, you're right." I'm like, "Yes. I know." I'm the same way too, right?


Vitina: For the viewers, though, today's episode, it was really focusing on Sanja's expertise on getting paid what you're worth. Sanja, I know that you had expressed that. You've gone through your journey of setting pricing for maybe your services and your products. Can you share with us your journey, and maybe any tips that you have for people who are struggling with getting paid what they're worth?


Sanja: It's actually funny because this has been such a recent journey for me because when I first started my businesses, and I have a few, so I have my products and my company, and I also do brand management for people. I'm all over the place, but it's given me a really good perspective on different ways of approaching this topic. In one process that I have held to this, I have to charge what I have to charge because I retail stuff that's wholesaled and whatever.


I also did by myself at the beginning of that journey lowering my prices because I wanted people to buy from me and be competitive, add having to realize that that's actually not competitive. I was really just cheapening myself and my work. Also, I think at the end of the day, people forget that. We all do things that we love because we love them, but we also have to pay bills. I like making money. I like being able to buy groceries. That is why I work.


Yes, I love what I do and I'm passionate about it and there are times where I can compromise and do something just because I love it, but I also have to put food on the table for my kids. That's just how it is. To be competitive, to really show that we are at the same level as these other big companies that are competitors, we have to charge what they're charging, and sometimes more because guess what? We're the little guy and it costs us more to bring something in.


It really actually took me sitting down looking at my numbers with my accountant to be like, "I'm not doing myself any favours here? Who am I doing this for? I'm giving my customer $2 off? $2 times 1,000 people, that's a big hit for me." The customers are going to be fine. What I really need to focus on building is the relationship and the customer service rather than just focusing on giving them a discount. That's not what's going to keep them coming back at the end of the day.


I realize that now because I have customers who are willing to pay more for a product because they like me and they like the customer service that we provide. We give something different to them than maybe a big box store. On the other hand, when I started doing brand managing people and charging people for my services, I was charging people $250 a month to run all their social media and marketing.


Vitina: Oh, my goodness.


Sanja: I thought that was a good price because I'm like, "I like this, and I'm really good at this, so why would I charge more. This is relatively easy for me." Then, my girlfriend who does the same thing, she was like, "You need to start charging more because it's annoying when I charge triple what you do and you're really good at what you do, and then people think that I'm charging too much."


I was like, "Oh, right." She was like, "How much time is it taking you?" I was like, "A lot of time. I'm spending a lot of time on this, but I love it." Then, I was like, "Wait. If I broke it down by hour, I was getting less than $5 an hour." I was like, "Oh. Well, that's not a liveable wage."


Vitina: It's below minimum wage, at least in Ontario. It's $15 an hour at least."


Sanja: Literally. I was like, "Oh." I was so worried about telling people like, "I'm actually going to charge for this." It was quite a bit higher than what I was charging before. What happened was literally nothing. My clients were like, "Okay." Probably because they just thought they were getting a steal of a deal anyway with my low price. I think it was just because I really had to sit down and think about what am I bringing to this client? Because at the end of the day, they searched me out. If someone is looking for your services, it's because they either, A, don't want to do it themselves, or B, they can't do it themselves. They need you. Obviously, be reasonable, I think. At the same time, when you think about it that way when you're like, "You searched me out and need me, so I need to charge what I feel is fair for me to do the job that I need to do, because also at the end of the day, for 250 bucks, I'm not going to lie, it's not very motivating. I'm not very passionate about putting in 40 hours of work for 250 bucks, that's just not enough.” You have to be also driven by the fact that you're like, "Well, they're paying me an X amount of money to perform, so I need to perform to meet that how much I'm getting paid." I think it just works both ways like that.


Vitina: Absolutely. I know Marie Forleo often will share this, and I know she definitely presses this in her B-School program. She always says, "If you're going to offer, say, a $3,000 service or online course or whatever you're doing, never lower your price. How do you add more value, and that's exactly what you're doing for the customer." Maybe you're adding in great customer service, or maybe you're adding in bonus courses, or maybe you're adding in some bonus e-book training, whatever it is, but you're always adding value.


I think that you had mentioned this in your email for me, but you've met so many people that do so much more and they charge less. Then there are people that charge so much and they don't even deliver. It's like where's that healthy balance?


Sanja: Yes. I think it's really just taking that time to really reflect on yourself and sit down with yourself and be like, "What am I worth?" Also, if I was in that position, what would I be charging someone, and what would I want to pay me? Because I sometimes feel like a lot of that has to do with being a woman and stuff, and I think that we very often devalue ourselves and feel like it's harder for us to speak up or ask for more because it's just something that's sort of been ingrained in us.


It's just so funny because I maybe I've just been lucky, but for the most part, I've never had any pushback. It's just because I feel like when you're sure of yourself and your commitment to whatever project you're doing or job you're doing, when you say like, "This is what I want you to pay me, this is what I'm going to deliver to you", and I'm telling it to you in a very certain and confident way, 99% of the time your client or customer is going to be like, "Okay, I believe you."


If you come to me and tell me like, "Okay, I'm going to do this" and like, "Is this amount okay?" Me as a business owner, I'm going to be like, "No, I'm going to lowball you, you don't seem very sure of yourself", right? If you come and tell me like, "This is it, this is the price. This is how it's going to be, this is what I can provide you", then it's like up to me to decide, "Okay, I'm either going to hire you for this or I'm going to look somewhere else and make a decision that way."


There's room for everybody for whatever any of us are doing, and we all deserve to get paid like what we're worth.


Vitina: This really brought up an experience that I've recently gone through. I have a client that I've had for over a decade, and obviously, a decade ago, I was charging a lot less than what I'm charging today, and so any new client was always at this one specific rate, but that client, I had gradually tried to get them to that rate. This year, still undercutting myself, I was like, "Okay, this is my price for the year", and they came back saying, "Well, this is all I can offer you. This is the maximum amount."


Even a “no” is still a playground for negotiation, and I think as a woman, we often forget that we can negotiate. It doesn't have to be a no, it's just understanding what your client's maybe concern is, maybe its budget, maybe it's something else, but whatever that is and how you get an understanding and you can address their concern. For me, maybe the concern was budget because it went up maybe 20% compared to 10%. The concern was addressed because I do things a lot faster now than I did years ago. What it used to take me 10 hours might take me like half the time, and so keeping that in mind, I think is also really key.


Sanja: Yes. I saw it on Facebook or somewhere where it was like, "I'm not charging for my hours, I'm charging for my experience because I'm giving you something that somebody else can't because I've been doing this for X amount of years or whatever." I, as a woman, never really got taught about money, and I never really got comfortable talking about money. I was raised in a very traditional Eastern European house where it was just expected that when I get married one day, my husband would probably run the finances and whatever. Now, I'm at a place where my husband does run our family finances because I'm so bad with money because nobody ever had these conversations with me, and now it's taking me as an adult who's almost in her 30s to sit down and be like, "Okay, how do I budget? How do I do these things?"


That lack of experience and lack of knowledge, I think really did affect me as an entrepreneur and doing the whole like how much am I worth and whatever and it really took me sitting down in understanding money and finances and all those things to be like, "Okay, money is not hard to talk about, it's money. We all need it, we all use it. That's just how it is." It's okay to ask for more, and it's okay to negotiate, and this is just how it works.


There are so many layers to it, I think, especially for me as a female entrepreneur, that when I talk to my male counterparts, I feel like they've never or have seldom experienced the same things that I have in terms of money and negotiating and what you're supposed to charge.


Vitina: Yes, absolutely. I really resonate with that. My family also, they were immigrants, my grandparents were immigrants to Canada. My parents obviously had a lot of lack within their childhood, and as they were growing up, they did well for themselves, and they never wanted me to experience what they experienced. In their care, they just kind of took care of everything. I asked for something, I received, which taught me this mindset of abundance and figuring out [chuckles] got I want, but the struggle is similar to your experience in-- as an example, charging $250 for 40 hours of work, I can really resonate with that. Then you realize, "Oh my goodness, as a 30-year-old adult, okay, I have my rent to pay for, I have this to pay for", and it just doesn't work.


Something that was really helpful for me, there was an equation that someone helped me with, and it's like breaking down, "Okay, how much ideally would you like to make that year?" I think that's dependent on the person, but putting that down and you're only working five days a week, and how much vacation do you want, so you're going to have to take those weeks off. When you decide that, I believe this is, again, my horrible math. [laughs] I need a piece of paper.


Sanja: Math is not my strong suit, hence my issues with that.


Vitina: Then you would divide it by that number of days that you would technically be working per year. Then if you're working a typical 40 hour work week, then the eight hours, then you would divide it by eight hours, and that helps you find what your hourly rate could be. You might want to buffer because you never know what the month is going to be, and I don't know if you even have any recommendations on payment plans or payment structures that you have found the best in your business as a service, and as maybe a product.


Sanja: I think what I've actually learned that I'm actually to be changing for a lot of my clients, is that invoicing on the first is a terrible idea. I've learned that because, A, I know when I get an invoice from someone on the first, I to see it, I look at it and I'm like "Great, I actually haven't done my budgeting for the month, so it's going to have to wait a second." Also, it's the first, something is always happening on the first of the month. There's always something going down that you can't control. A lot of people are also-- they are waiting to get paid from somebody else to be able to pay you and it's this whole thing. I've started invoicing people now on the 15th, the middle of the month. They have time, but they know it's coming, they know that it's in the middle of the month, there's no excuse really for being, "It's the 1st, and I got sidetracked and whatever."


When I invoice people, it's an immediate thing. It's like I say, "Invoice, there is no like--" because they know that it's coming, and that's the relationship that I build with my clients, and obviously for me, the amount that I'm invoicing is not so high that I feel like I need to give them 30, 60, 90 days, so that's also very dependent on what industry you're in and how much your invoice. I think if you're invoicing someone $10,000, you might want to give them a second to pay that, but that's also up to you, that's totally a personal preference, but they have this what they know that it's coming, the invoice is coming, they know that the work has been on for the previous month, they know that I worked in the work for this month. I have a system that's set up that it's like within 48 hours if I have not received payment, it'll just keep reminding you.


It just is what it is, and I stopped having shame about that. I'm that person, I'm like, I will double, triple, quadruple text you, I'm sorry, look, you just have to get back to me. Within that, I'm also really fair. If somebody messages me and like, "Sorry, I'm out of town", or, "My internet banking is not working." or this, this, I'm like, "Yes, of course." I'm not going to harass you, I'm a human being too. I give fair warning, I give 48 hours, and then after that, you just get reminders because it's like you've been paying me for the last year, you know how it works, you just transfer the money and be done with it, and then you don't have to hear for me for the next 30 days.


I think maybe to some people that might sound like really aggressive and cutthroat, but I've just learned that I can't be a pushover. I can't be that person who’s constantly like, "Oh, it's okay." Like, "It's fine." Like, "Don't worry about it-" you just like pay me when you get a second because what happens then is that it's three months later, and I'm behind on things that I need to pay for because I've been so lenient with so and so. They just walk all over me. It's a lot harder to go from that to then being a person who says, like, no, this has to be done now, than just already starting off on that way, just being-- sorry, if you're working with me, this is the level that I will give to you of professionalism that I expect back.


Vitina: Absolutely. There's one thought that came to my mind, and you had said, "I'm bad at finances." I had to change my mindset about that too and telling myself that I'm just not good at it yet. That wiring in your mind too, and maybe you are in that process of becoming your own expert in it. It's that big mindset change for me as well because similar to you, I'm just not good at it yet.


I'm on the path, because it's so important, and especially as a woman, and I know there's a lot of women out there also right now that are helping women, especially female entrepreneurs, get smart with money because there is a generational change happening as well. Being from a European household, it's probably just an old school mindset, and now things are changing. It's really cool to see how things are changing. I really appreciate your wisdom and your experience on just understanding that you're worth it. You're worth it.


Sanja: I know, and it does seem so simple to say that, and this simple concept of just being like, I'm worth it and-- It's just I compare it to so much of being in a comfortable body and whatever and being like, I feel good and I'm so confident, but you always are going to have self-doubts. You're always going to have those moments of like, "Did I do good enough job?" And, "Am I really worth what I'm charging or wanting to charge?" And stuff like that, but I really think that you just have to sit down with yourself and really be honest with yourself, and you're worth it. Think about why you're worth it. Remember your why, remind yourself of what you are bringing to the table and why this person has sought you out for this specific thing. It's always remembering your why and your reason for doing things. I think that it's a lot easier than to be like you know, I am worth it because I care, I'm passionate. I'm good at this. I care about this. When you sit down and think of all those things in your life, it's so much easier than to be okay, yes, so then I deserve to be paid best.


Vitina: Absolutely. Do you mind sharing your “why”?


Sanja: Yes. My why is that, I emigrated to Canada at five years old. I grew up in a household that we didn't have a lot of money, and my parents never really-- it was never like obvious, I guess. I never have anything to compare it to. We were all immigrants just hanging out with a bunch of immigrants. Nobody really knew what anybody had. Now that I have kids, I have three small kids, and I have a lot of-- My therapist calls it immigrant guilt, of wanting to provide my kids with the things that I couldn't, and not necessarily in like physical things, but in experiences.


I have a great relationship with my parents, and they did a very good job. We did things that maybe didn't cost money, but I felt as a child growing up there were so many things that I wanted to do, like piano and dance and all these things that I really sort of missed out on because my parents just visit-- They just couldn't afford it. I just thought to myself, I have three daughters, and I was like, I just want to be able to give them experiences when they want them and deserve them. If my daughter wants to try soccer, then I want her to be able to try it. I just want them to experience life. It's like every kid who grows up with not a lot of money. I just don't want my kids to experience those hardships because it just sucked for me as a kid, to be completely honest. There's obviously absolutely no shame in not being able to give your kids something. There's a lot of times where my kids ask for things that I'm like, that's just not something that's reasonable and not like we can do for you. I have always wanted to have the freedom, I guess, that I never had as a child growing up, and especially feeling so fortunate to live in a country like Canada and be able to have so much opportunity. I just want to be able to give that opportunity. Even outside of my kids, I want to be able to give that opportunity to other people. I'm a really big believer in giving back to the community and participating in the community. I want to give that experience to as many people as I can. My why is to be able to give more than I get.


Vitina: You're serving, my friend. That is amazing. Thank you for being so honest and vulnerable. I know one of the best pieces of advice that I got actually was a guest on our first season, Joel Solomon. He was all about abundance. That's a big thing in changing because similar to, I'm sure my parents like, we can't afford that. Then again, another mindset shift is that's just not a priority right now. Understanding your priorities is so key and not feeling guilty if you can't afford something right now. It's, again, with that idea of just not yet. It's just not a priority right now. It's true and like everyone's at a different financial place in their life. It's just understanding what your priorities are at that moment. For you, it's like, I'm sure it's your kids and your family, and your business, and it's going to be different. Understanding your priorities is such a key factor when budgeting and playing with money.


Sanja: Yes, 100%. Even apart from that, it's also just being honest about the kind of person that you are and what you define things as. Someone asked me the other day, what I define success as. I know that it's very different for everybody else, but for me, it's having financial freedom. That's just my definition of it. I'm not ashamed to say, for me, success is being able to look at something and be like, I want that, and I'm going to get that, and I don't have to think about, can I afford my groceries the next day? That's just my personal definition of it, whether that's stem from the way that I grew up or whatever. Obviously, that doesn't mean that I don't focus on happiness and fulfilment and whatever, but that's just my basic definition of it. I think that that is kind of like, what are your priorities, these are my priorities, and for me, they are rooted in financial freedom. How does that work, and how does that fit into what I do.

Vitina: Yes. You're not alone with that definition. I think there's a lot of people that hope for financial freedom.


Sanja, thank you so much for joining us today. I can just feel all your passion. You've been so authentic and so vulnerable. Thank you so much. I know that the listeners are really, really going to really connect with you. I'm curious to know if there's anything that you've been working on that you think that our listeners would really dig.


Sanja: Yes. Thank you, by the way, for having me and giving me the opportunity and stuff to chat, and I guess even promote myself too. Thank you for being a woman who supports women. I really appreciate that. I love your podcast. I'm going to tell all my friends about it just because you're so lovely.


Yes, so within my, I guess creativity and doing things myself, I created my own skincare line called IV Skincare, launched my first product in May called the Infusion Serum. I'm actually just expanding now to more of a range. I'm very excited about that. I think that this is what I've been working towards in my entrepreneurship journey. I'm just very excited about where it's going to take me. That's kind of what I'm doing right now, being creative, being innovative.


Vitina: For listeners that really want to connect with you, where can they find you?


Sanja: They can find me on my Instagram. Hopefully, they like hearing me talk about all the things, much to my husband's dismay, I tell every personal detail of my life. It's sansanjovs, so it's S-A-N-S-A-N and then J-O-V-S. You can find me on there sharing all the very personal details.


Vitina: Amazing. Thank you so much for joining us, Sanja.


Sanja: Thank you so much.

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